Hello Nick,
As I said in my post, my comments were meant to be constructive in nature. For years, we waited patiently for help for the Canadian and UK community hoping that someone would step up. We made some early attempts to help but ultimately gave up because it seemed no one was interested in the "thankless" job. Certainly, neither Oscar or I felt qualified to help the UK audience. There were enough cultural differences that we, as Americans, would lack credibility in any statements we make regarding the situation outside of the U.S. And so, we have stayed largely silent on international issues.
However, as you pointed out, we do get a fair amount of international visitors and there are various threads that were created by prior visitors.
I respect that you were a Getty Images victim and commend you for taking the initiative to do what you have done thus far. As I said, it is far more than what your UK counterparts are doing. I would be the first to tell you that I questioned whether I wanted to keep the ELI project alive especially the last 2 years. Not so much now because I have a lot more clarity. But from late 2009 to - late 2011, I can share that I seriously entertained the thought of closing down ELI and just letting people fend for themselves. I was getting worn down by all the help requests. However, Oscar encouraged me to keep it going. It was only around Nov-Dec. 2011 that I got clarity around the ELI project. All the crazy time and late nights I was putting in to manage and grow the whole ELI network had to stop (or greatly reduced) or there had to be more money coming in (to offset the insane hours I was putting in) than the small amount of Paypal contributions coming in. So I understand the money issue as it relates to the ongoing work to help others. I also understand that the lawyers/solicitors have to be paid some nominal amount for their involvement. I don't claim to understand the intricacies of your template letter system, the 2-year support, and the "no win, no fee" provision but I would love to hear more of how it all works.
But feel free to expand on it here if you like. You have a large and interested audience here. :-) It sounds like an interesting approach and a different perspective which we welcome.
Regarding your comments about other discussion forums, I can see your perspective with the various forums in the UK especially the FSB forums. The problem with the FSB forums is that it appears to be a small business forum which caters to a very wide audience of which the Getty issue is one of many being discussed. While there is a moderator there, he does not have a vested interest nor the subject matter expertise to jump into steer, guide, or moderate the conversation. Further, it appears his role is to "balance" both sides of the conversation. And because you have different factions warring in the discussion, it becomes this ugly, runaway train.
Here on the ELI Forums, we are clearly focused on the extortion letter scheme and helping letter recipient victims. That has been a big part of our mission. We do not prohibit photographers, stock photo agencies, or lawyers from the "other side" from posting or participating in the discussions but I think it is self-evident that our forums would be a "hostile" and "disagreeable" audience to get involved in. It certainly doesn't help when all the moderators and members of the defense team are mostly on one side of the issue and not the other. I believe all of this has acted as deterrents to their participation.
I have participated in online discussion forums before, as well as started and run them, before the ELI Project ever began. I will tell anyone that in the early stages of forming an online community, it can be a thankless, time-consuming job. What I do know is that a discussion forum doesn't just grow by itself by throwing it out in the open. It requires nurturing and participation until it starts having a life of its own. Even when it has a life of its own, the moderation style and guidelines have a strong influence on who it attracts, who posts, and how people post/respond. Good posts with a high signal-to-noise ratio are rewarded. Baiters, troublemakers, trolls that don't contribute to the overall conversation are highly discouraged and even put down. But don't confuse legitimate difference of opinions/perspectives vs. people who do a hit-and-run number simply saying outrageous things without substantiation. These get weeded out quickly. I am happy to say we continue to maintain a reasonably high signal-to-noise ratio here. Certainly, he have our share of snarky posts, humor posts, and side comments. But for the most part, I am happy to say most people stay on track without too much intervention.
That is why some of the other forums look chaotic, unfocused, and simply a bloody mess. In any case, you are welcome to share what you are doing. I do agree with you that what you offer is worth sharing. If I didn't, I wouldn't have drawn attention to this thread by commenting on it or engaging you in this open discussion. We are happy to have your solicitor come on these forums and expand upon what she is doing with her program. My advice is don't pitch us. This audience is very savvy to such things. Just openly and honestly educate and inform us, the referrals will take care of itself.
Right now, from what I can see, there needs to be more "openness", clarity, and explanation of what the various letters are for and the specific topics they deal with and how your entire program works. And if there are specific legal talking points, it would be nice to know those. You don't actually have to put up the actual letters to do this. It sounds like I am asking for trade secrets but I will tell you that people are much more trusting when they know what they are getting. We also happen to practice what we preach too. You may lose a sale or two for do-it-yourself types but you will have advocates that will sing your praises for being open. We get a crazy amount of incoming links from all kinds of websites I never knew existed. It really is an honor when people do that for your website without being asked to.
A few days ago, I released an extensive outline of my upcoming special report. It was meant to be informative and to solicit feedback of topics I might have missed. And yet, inadvertently it became a marketing piece because I have already gotten several positive reactions of how expansive and detailed that outline was. I didn't get the feedback I was looking for but I did get MORE interest in people wanting to get a copy. LOL.
Anyhow, we will certainly pay attention to your website and monitor it and your offerings to the U.K. audience. Legitimate tools to help extortion letter victims are badly needed there. Thanks for sharing your story and engaging us. We are sponges here so our ears are open to any behind-the-scenes story you want to share. :-)
Hi Matthew
I apologise for saying we are doing the same thing as you. I was so keen to get the video information out there that my post was a bit short and perhaps misleading.
What I would say is that we are 'fighting' getty and their obnoxious letters in the UK. I myself am a 'victim' and when I found copyrightinfringement.org.uk and eventually met them it was the first time that I felt that there was somebody there to help!
I offered to help them with both website and video work so that the message could be spread. I take no payment for this but obviously the solicitor and company need some finance to keep the whole project going.
We are in the process of redoing the website and the offer involved but I would stress that Liz will be defending participants on a no win no fee basis should it come to that so there is perhaps more to the offer than at first appears. Also the template letters will continue to be supplied for the two year period. We are also offering an enhanced service where we will do the letters from the company as opposed to supplying them to the participants.
I don't believe that yet another forum would be that helpful as a, you have an excellent forum on this site and there are many more in the UK. What tends to happen is that after a while the whole thing starts going round in circles and then forum members start abusing each other. The FSB (Federation of Small Businesses UK) forum is a case in point. Then you get the Getty 'moles' attacking. One on the FSB forum who appeared to be a Getty mole called themselves 'Bambi' which was quite amusing.
Anyway, I apologise again for appearing to offer what you do but personally speaking, although the cost may be higher here than the service you are offering I still feel it is worth offering.
Best Regards
Nick
Topic: Getty in the UK (Read 64231 times)